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fascist, racist mention 

That twitter “primitivists are fascists” thread is pretty bad. Anti-civ folks have and continue to acknowledge racists also like nature and people can call themselves whatever they like it doesn’t make it true.

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs Unabomber manifesto is pretty fashy. While he doesn't accept the label, i can see why his section of primitivists could be classified as fascists. People in that thread were quoting him verbatim. There are non-primitivist anti-civ and green anarchist factions too, so it is easy to see why primitivists get a bad rep.

fascist, racist mention 

@policeinchains what did you find especially fashy about the manifesto? Because there are certainly also parts I can understand as appealing to many people in the broader green movement.

Besides that, and the fact that ted k is more of a meme than anything, it’s still wack to conflate someone calling them-self an anarcho-nationalist and a primitivist or whatever the fuck with other people who use that label who have nothing to do with that discord room.

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs Cimplaining about "oversocialisation" of people making dependamt of civilisation. Spending pages complaining about leftists to the point Brievik copy pasted parts of it into his manifesto.

I mean sure, labels don't necessarily mean shared responsibility. But there is also a particular adherence to complete absence of technology, that implies hardships for people, such as disabled and trans people. There are other issues too, that broadly converges with fascists.

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs Such as returning to a long lost past, or living in an "authentic" and natural social formation. Taking nature as a some sort of whole beyond rationality, a la "gaia". These are also themes of fascism.

fascist, racist mention 

@policeinchains the people who believe nature to be everything are irrational then?

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs No, i did not pass judgement. I just pointed a convergence. Believing the nature is a whole beyond reason is a completely harmless belief on its own. I am just pointing out why there can be some fascistic people calling themselves primitivists, i don't think all primitivists are fascists. Tho, it would be useful for them to acknowledge and clarify the issue in a satisfying manner. Just disavowing is not enough, they need to show why those folks should not think

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs themselves to be primitvists. By those folk, i mean ableist, transphobic, mystically oriented fascists. Misanthropes, in other words.

fascist, racist mention 

@policeinchains people have been doing this though. For ages.
I will restate again that AP is a critique and not a program.
There are definitely really good critiques about primitivism, but fashjacketing is an ignorant way of doing anything like that.
Also the suggestion that trans people must rely on civ is a little fucked imo.
Lastly, marxism is most definitely prescriptive.
I’m tired of these 2015 era red versus green arguments though so I’m going to leave it there.

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs Trans people need medication to deal with their disphoria. Not only them, many peoples most of which are oppressed on the top of it, need modern medical treatments to survive.

You response to my drawing similarities for two groups has been defending the primitivist perspective.

"marxism is most definitely prescriptive", ideologies might be prescriptive or not in principle. But Marxists and primitivists do act and speak in a prescriptivist manner. Likemost people

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs Problem is not my red coat being allergic to green prespectives, or even with spiritualism. I am a deleuzean, i personally am okay with most of it even tho i am not a primitivist. Most beliefs are irrational for example, gaia perspective in itself is not fascistic. I am just trying to show what people are complaining about, and what scares them. We need to be able to differentiate life affirming/humane beliefs from inhumane beliefs. At some places it gets mixed up

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs "Not only them, many peoples most of which are oppressed on the top of it, need modern medical treatments to survive. " Let them die is not a humane position. Let them live implies technology, which people who identify as primitivists seem to prescriptively oppose.

trans-medicalist content above 

@policeinchains get outta here with that trans-medicalist bs

trans-medicalist content above 

@bugs What? I did not mention transitioning. It could be mere antidepressants etc.

Primitivist discourse 

@bugs Also why are you disregarding disabled people at every turn, and get surprised when people gets creeped out by it?

Primitivist discourse 

@bugs or people with chronic diseases in general, many of which would be dead or in worse situations without modern medical treatments. Should only healthy survive? No, probably. But saying so within certain circles is a rough issue.

Primitivist discourse 

@policeinchains don’t put that on me. I never made that argument and I’m very upset that you would accuse me of that. Ableism is a concern of mine daily, and not some theoretical factor in an imaginary world that I haven’t even had any input on.

Primitivist discourse 

@bugs i am not accusing you with anything. i am well aware that not all anti-civ or promitivist people are fascists, as i said before. I am simply pointing out why the issue we are talking about exists. Because that hypothetical world is an important aim for many people and would be really bad for many other people. So the second group is afraid of the latter. That was literally one of the points of that twitter thread. One of the fash called modern medication causes

Primitivist discourse 

@bugs overpopulation. And this is one of the issues of contention. There isn't an easy answer to this question while staying within what those people consider primitivist paradigm. Some other green anarchists for example, support a mixture of ecological cities with technologies with rest of the world prim populated. So people could choose according to their needs.

fascist, racist mention 

@policeinchains primitivism is not a prescriptive system and people who think otherwise are generally outing their authoritarian tendencies

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs There are prescriptive tendencies of all of nominally non prescriptive systems. Marxism nominally is not prescriptive either.

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs oof, there's been way too much of this going around lately.

The recent discourse about "eco-fascism" has some of the worst strawman arguments and logical fallacies I've seen. ARR in particular makes these leaps all the time by claiming "green anarchists care about nature, this one fascist also wrote some stuff about nature, therefore green anarchist ideas are fascist".

fascist, racist mention 

@mycelia for real.

It’s almost always a rejection of aesthetics more-so than any objectionable ideas.
What makes that especially frustrating is the fact that the people in that thread definitely found something that could be called eco-fascism, but instead of seeing that the things they’re saying are nothing like the things we’re saying they just went “well you both like GREEEN!”

fascist, racist mention 

@bugs wrong— one time an anprim said some ignorant shit and now they are all bad

fascist, racist mention 

@black_fox Ah! Fuck, I’ve been owned again

death, leukaemia 

@black_fox My friend died of leukaemia and the doctors couldn’t do shit, but it’s actually really cool and good of people to use things they no very little about in a what-if question.

In other words, I fully support everything this anprim says and does and should be held 100% accountable to all their actions.

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